Hanwei Chinese Swords


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Hanwei Chinese Swords

by Garrett C.
(Edmonton, Canada)

On the SBG forums I find that there are a lot of misconceptions about the Hanwei Chinese swords. Many people buy them expecting them to compare favorably to Hanwei's Japanese and European lines. However this is not the case!

Hanwei did not design their Chinese swords for serious cutting or to historical accuracy standards. I'll explain why. Even though they have a "practical" Chinese line it does not compare in any way to the Practical Katana or European swords. This is because of the nature of Japanese sword arts (JSA) and Western martial arts (WMA)...JSA usually includes test cutting on tatami mats and bamboo. WMA has some test cutting as well as blunt steel blade on blade work. This means that Hanwei needs to make tough swords for their JSA and WMA customers to be satisfied.

Most modern Chinese martial arts (CMA) are quite the opposite. Most CMA people don't know a thing about swords! In fact it's not uncommon to find people who think that the flexible wushu weapons are actually real Chinese weapons! Due to lack of education and different presentation in media between Chinese and Japanese swords, consumers expect much less in a Chinese sword. From kung fu movies, wushu flexibility is expected in a Chinese sword whereas samurai movies promote a razor sharp katana that can cut tanks in half. Hanwei then offers a product accordingly.

All that being said, the Chinese sword market is still under development mostly because of the reasons stated above. Hanwei has done a great job in stepping up the quality from floppy wushu swords but please please please do not cut with Hanwei Chinese swords like they are real swords! They can handle light casual cutting but they will fail when repeatedly pitted against heavier targets.

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Hanwei Chinese Swords

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Dec 05, 2010

there's the rub
by: B

The antique jian and dao were created for one purpose: to allow it's owner to have the means to defend themselves and to disable/kill the opponent. While there were some late Qing jian with more flexible blades...almost floppy...some of these blades even lacked proper heat treatment. At this time the advent of the gun as well as the adoption of the jian by scholars as a symbol created a market for some of the first 'Sword Like Objects'.

The sword fighting art's original purpose was to win a swordfight and minimize injury to yourself. The use of it as 'art' and 'philosophy' were added later in order to sell to the masses as 'exercise' since former military trainers had a tough time teaching it to soldiers who now wanted a rifle. This unfortunately led Chinese Sword Arts and CMA in general along the path of degeneration, ignorance and creating of myths which are propagated by well meaning people who never the less have never actually even held a real antique sword in their hands.

Dec 05, 2010

Play nice.
by: Anonymous

First, "floppy" isn't the correct word for a traditional dueling jian. If you are referring to a performance sword for Wushu (the proper noun), then you are talking about Chinese government performance wushu, which is used only for performance. Traditional jian used in traditional Chinese martial arts are not floppy, but slightly flexible.

Second, you are assuming that a dueling jian must take a blow by an inevitably slower, heavier sword. A skilled swordsman using Chinese martial arts techniques should be able to defeat a slower opponent with little sword-to-sword contact. Like has been said before: each sword is designed to be used in specific situations. A dueling jian should be light and slightly flexible, similar to a rapier used in fencing. The movements in traditional Chinese sword forms are not meant for battle, but for fencing. It is a gentleman's weapon. To call a jian a "fake" is to call fencing fake as well.

In other words, just because you can't go to battle with it doesn't mean it's not a real sword. You don't have to be an expert to know that, just logical.

Also, I would like to say that this is probably the stupidest debate I've ever participated in and really don't know why I'm saying anything. If people really care about having a "real" sword (however you define that) maybe they need to find a time machine and go back to an era where it would actually be useful. Personally, I practice the sword-fighting arts for the art itself, not for its practicality (because it has none- it's 2010.) Seriously- is anyone really going to walk into Starbucks carrying their "real" sword in case those damn barristas spit in their coffee?

Dec 05, 2010

please learn about real swords
by: B

Willing a floppy sword to properly deflect a heavy properly heat treated blade will cause you to experience something other than 'a win'.

Please actually read the stuff on this forum and on grtc.org or phone Scott Rodell at seven stars trading and handle some real antique swords before you spew garbage about what makes a sword functional.

Dec 04, 2010

My two cents
by: Anonymous

I'm completely new to swords only a week ago. Since then I spent about 30 hours researching a lot about swords, blades, the names of the parts on a sword and to some extent their styles. I definitely will not claim I'm any expert (laugh) but I do have a perspective I want to share in my search for a sword.

I believe a 'real' sword is simply a sword that fulfills the needs of the keeper, and that's it. To a small child a spoon is a 'real' sword as it fulfills the need and serves its purpose (just an extreme example). We do not live in any dynasty and if we did we would know that sword making has changed over the years to fit the needs of those who kept and used them. We live in a different society today than those who did centuries or tens of centuries ago. Those were very different times.

I had the pleasure of emailing with Garret a couple of times and I was somewhat insulted for my choice in swords because from his perspective what I wanted was not a 'real' sword, even though it would have met my needs in a sword. I think Garret needs to realize that 'real' means it fulfills the needs of the keeper and not that it is completely indestructible to the ancients standards. Those standards existed because swords were used in real combat time and time again and not just sword form practice. I totally respect Garrets dedication and appreciation for the great ancient ways of sword making but I feel he needs to get into the buyer's mind a bit and find what his need is before going off on him or her for wanting something less than 1000% quality sword, especially if you're on a budget, like I am.

I am one of those that was looking for a flexible type jian sword for practicing tai chi form practice. I wanted a sword that could take a beating should I ever be put into a situation of needing a sword to defend myself against an attacker, however unlikely. In my price range, i'd be happy if the sword survived the attack and didn't break. I don't think I can expect more than that.

One other thing, in my research the flexible swords were used for mainly defensive purposes as they could absorb a heavy blow without breaking better than a rigid blade. The thinner metal made the sword more maneuverable (wrist action (slap I believe its called) for cutting tendons and maiming your opponent vs. killing them outright in a big heavy swing with enough power to slice a person in half. To me, that's just overkill. I'm attracted to the artistry of a flexible type of sword, the grace and the ethical beliefs that go with the sword. For me, personally, I find learning the art of using a sword is what makes a sword more real than the sword itself. It's more challenging, and it develops the keepers character and that is the need that my sword will fulfill. And when I get great at using my sword I won't need a $3000 sword to win. My $300 one will work just fine - because I willed it to.

Jan 05, 2010

Man, Im sorry
by: The real Lie Feng

I just read a post someone pointed out to me, and I must say this is real funny, I cannot believe that there is a stocker going around masquerading as me posting on forums here and there...
Although not a fan of Hanwei they do make wonderful swords and have owned a few in the past.
Please disregard anything that imposter has posted, these are not my views - lol

Nov 27, 2009

I take that back
by: JD

Actually, I believe I may have spoken too fast. I generally become very skeptical of people when they claim to have 'experienced Wudang' and perhaps I shouldn't dismiss anyone I don't know so quickly, so I apologize.

I am very familiar with Wudang, but there are parts of Wudang that I have yet to explore. There could be a Pei Chi Temple somewhere in the range, though I'm not sure where. But if you were at a temple elsewhere in the range in the early 80s, I would still say that the kung fu you experienced then was probably not Wudang. As far as I understand, it wasn't really until the mid-to-late 80s that any true Wudang was brought back to the mountain. From what I have been told by my Shifu, there are currently only 100 complete forms (including sword forms) and about 300 incomplete forms in Wudang, in all lineages. All the rest are unfortunately lost.

So though some gaps in training have been filled with other styles of martial arts- such as kung fu from Laoshan in Shandong as I said before- I can confidently say that there are currently pure Wudang forms being taught in the mountain. TaiYi would be the best example of that. I haven't seen those movements in any other martial art.

Nov 27, 2009

The post below
by: JD

I referred to the Green Destiny sword because earlier comments referred to the film Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and because the original article referred to Chinese swords created after imagery in films. I pointed out that the imagery (in relation to the jian) presented in Crouching Tiger was accurate, despite the original article's claim that it wasn't. Sorry if that was confusing. I still stand by my comment that the jian used in duels is supposed to be light and fast, with a slightly flexible tip, as opposed to the jian used in combat, which is inflexible.

I have never claimed to be an expert, however I am well-educated when it comes to weapons used in Wudang Kung Fu. I have no other way of proving that other than to say that I studied in Wudangshan and am Wudang Sanfeng Pai. When it comes to sword arts, sorry, but Wudang Kung Fu hasn't borrowed since its beginnings. It's one of the oldest martial arts in China. While some of its current, basic forms used for body conditioning are from Laoshan, Wudang swordplay, its TaiYi and many of its other empty-hand forms, are quite old and very unique to Wudang.

As far as "Pei Chi Temple," I'm confused by your comment. The only Pei Chi Temple I've heard of is in Taiwan. There is no Pei Chi Temple in the Wudang mountain range. If there is a Pei Chi Temple, it's not a working temple and would only be accessible by foot- and I still would have heard of it if people had been visiting it since the early 80s.

And in the early 80s? Wudang Kung Fu wasn't taught to outsiders before 1989, so I don't know how you could have "experienced it personally" before then. In addition to that, during the Cultural Revolution, Wudang Masters fled to different parts of China and it was during the late 70s and early 80s that my Grandmaster and his kung fu brothers were spread throughout China, studying with these Masters to bring Wudang Kung Fu back to the mountain. That means there really wasn't any way for you to experience pure Wudang Kung Fu in the early 80s- especially if you were in Taiwan. Perhaps the Wudang Kung Fu presented to you wasn't actually Wudang?

I still maintain that many Chinese martial artists know plenty about the weapons used in their chosen art form. Many know much more than I do. And if I have been taught well, it's only logical that other Wudang students have been taught well also. So there must be more knowledge there than you think.

When it comes to using the so-called "real sword" as expressed on this site, what purpose does it serve other than for sitting on a rack? How many owners of those swords have the skill, let alone the need to use one, to actually require the ownership of a razor-sharp, perfectly-made sword? I would venture to say that some may have the skill, but NONE have the need for one. It's for display cases and bragging-rights- and nothing more.

Nov 26, 2009

Hanwei
by: Anonymous

Hanwei swords are good for one thing, looking at. The craftsmanship that goes into these is absolutely stunning, saying that the blades are thin and of no value. When buying a sword, you are buying a blade, paying over a grand for a fake blade that has been acid etched to look as though it has been folded is robbery to say the least.
JD, studying at Wudang does not make you an expert, mostly if you refer to the "Green Destiny" lol.
Most of Wudang has borrowed other styles across the board and not saying that they do not produce some good Kungfu artists most of the stuff they are sharing is just plain Wushu. Being at the Pei Chi temple back in the early 80's I got to experience the Wudang thing personally, how sad that some of the faces I see now were custodians and ticket takers for the government charging to see the burned out buildings where the Chinese killed so many of my elders.

Saying that, most martial artists dont know anything about traditional weapons and usage, please know that I am not saying this out of spite, but only truth.

Lie Feng Taoren
Pei Chi Pai

Nov 23, 2009

I Disagree
by: JD

As a practitioner of the Chinese martial arts, I must come our defense and say that many, if not most, Chinese martial artists know a thing or two about swords.

I am a practitioner of Wudang-style kung fu, and have spent a great deal of time studying in Wudang mountain. Wudang martial arts is well-known for its sword technique, hence why Yuan Woo-Ping used Wudang-style in his choreography for Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Though historically, the jian used in warfare is inflexible; the razor sharp, yet light and flexible tip of the Green Destiny sword is an accurate representation of many jian used in duels. In essence, one chooses their weapons based on circumstances, and not all weapons are appropriate for each situation. For an individual to use a combat sword with an inflexible tip in a duel, they would most certainly lose, as their opponent would have the advantage of speed due to their use of a lighter sword.

Most, if not all, wushu practitioners are well-aware of the 'extra' flexibility added via "wushu steel" to swords that are meant for performance and competition. That doesn't mean that the jian should never be flexible. It just means that people want their swords to "make noise" when performing.

The Chinese sword market is far from being underdeveloped- you just need to know where to look. Longquan village in Zhejiang Province is legendary for their sword making and has been making swords for over 2300 years. You can still buy beautifully made swords from Longquan village, where families have handed down their forging secrets for centuries. Sword forging techniques traveled FROM China to places such as Korea and Japan- and China has never lost those techniques.

Hanwei does not make high-quality Chinese swords because it is simply not their specialty- not because Chinese Martial Artists don't know anything about "real" swords. That's just not even a logical explanation.

Nov 03, 2009

Riddle of Steel
by: B.G.

The sword it's elf being only part of the equation, bear in mind that even the legendary Musashi fought (and won!) many duels against the storied katana with wooden bo-ken carved from whatever wood was @ hand - in the famous duel with Kojiro on the Funashima islet he is said to have used an "SLO" carved from a broken oar.

In short, the study of swordsmanship is (ideally) a lifelong commitment to the pursuit of excellence, not a quest for the 'perfect' piece of steel.

Mar 25, 2008

Response to Ion
by: Garrett C.

Ion, you have some good points. The reason why people like us are still interested in swords is because of the cultural and historical meaning associated with them. However when it comes down to it, a sword is a sword and an SLO (sword like object)is an SLO. Putting aside the romantic language that is what it boils down to.

What would Han Wu Di (the martial emperor) think if he saw a poor reproduction of a Han dynasty sword? To honour the men before us and these cultural treasures we should do our best to make swords as they were meant to be made...

Jan 28, 2008

Hanwei Chinese swords
by: Ion

Hanwei's Chinese Swords is not about having a powerful cutting edge, is about its own background culture. Many of their swords were used in very destructive cutting test on wide web such as youtube. When I though about that, I though is quite
powerful, but after what Mr.Chen said, I felt I starting to understand what is a real sword.

Real sword is not about its power, is about its background culture and history, the designs on certain swords he make shows very ancient art structure such as Han sword and Qi Sword. Qi sword is one over whole, so it makes sounds like in Chinese martial arts in Movies such as Crouching tiger and Hidden Dragon.

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